Open in TheBrain

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Join Marie E. Rognes of Simula as she discusses mathematical models and numerical methods for the brain's waterscape across scales—from viewing the brain as a poroelastic medium at the macroscale and zooming in to studying electrical, chemical and mechanical interactions between brain cells at the microscale.

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00:05

So scientists at the similar research laboratories in Oslo,

00:10

so professor at the University of Bergen,

00:13

both of them in Norway.

00:15

Maria is expert on scientific computing,

00:18

particularly for biomedical applications or work,

00:22

has received a lot of.

00:24

Let's say Onaran accolades, including she has.

00:27

She is living up in European Research Council.

00:30

Yes, he's starting ground. She was part of the team

00:34

that won the James Wilkinson Prize for Scientific Software and

00:38

many other words.

00:39

So really, looking forward to your talk Maria,

00:42

which is on the brains numerical waterscape.

00:45

So sounds very exciting. Thanks said thanks Jan for limitation.

00:50

Now, about seven years ago,

00:52

in the fall of 2013,

00:53

I was rather preoccupied with the concept of sleep.

00:58

As some of you have small children,

01:00

perhaps can relate to and I remember sitting in my

01:04

living room couch just next door here and I was

01:07

swiping through newspaper articles and my cell phone with one

01:11

heading caught my interest in particular and having read something

01:16

along the lines of sleep clears the brain of poison.

01:23

And.

01:26

The science underlying this paper that afterwards received massive popular

01:31

interest was the study published in Science in the same

01:35

fall by Mike in Nedergaard and her group.

01:38

She's a well known Danish neuro scientist and an experimentalist.

01:43

And what they have done?

01:46

Was too well. They work with mice.

01:49

And what the first author of this study look?

01:53

See, she had especially spend a large portion of her

01:57

PhD studies teaching mice to fall asleep under a true

02:01

fogtown fogtown fluorescent microscope.

02:03

But prior to making the mice fall asleep under the

02:07

microscope,

02:08

what they do is they inject a small amount of

02:12

so called tracer.

02:13

A fluorescent dye dissolved in a solvent and they injected

02:18

inside the mouse kind of brain environment but outside the

02:23

brain itself.

02:24

And then what they had,

02:25

they had two groups of mice,

02:26

a group that they then.

02:28

Observed falling asleep and one group that my said stayed

02:33

awake and then under this microscope.

02:36

They observe about 200 micro meters.

02:42

Into the brain inside the brain of these mice,

02:45

and they observe how the dye spreads in that region.

02:50

And what they found is really astounding where you can

02:53

see in figure B in this slide.

02:55

Here is that they found that the sleeping mice.

02:58

I have a stye spread much,

03:01

much better. Then in the awake mice of the sleeping,

03:05

my C is spread but was covered here in green

03:08

and figure B and the white mice.

03:10

It only spread what you seen in Orange.

03:14

And this was really they were flummoxed by.

03:17

This finding was completely surprising,

03:19

but very interesting. And I'll get back to this later,

03:23

but it's a question you may ask.

03:25

You know, you might wonder why are we interested in

03:29

die spreading inside the brains of mice.

03:32

While we're of course not really interested in die spreading

03:36

inside the brain in mice,

03:37

but we are immensely interested in understanding how molecules move

03:42

and spread inside and out of the human brain.

03:45

This is because of their Association with neurodegenerative diseases like

03:50

Alzheimer's disease like Parkinson's disease.

03:53

Like to mess with Lewy bodies.

03:55

All of these are the mansion type diseases that are

03:59

associated with abnormal aggregations of proteins inside the brain tissue

04:04

inside the cells or in the extracellular space.

04:08

And this is what this illustration shows.

04:11

This shows two types of abnormal protein aggregations.

04:15

The blue represent the protein tangles of the protein Tau,

04:19

which tends to tangle together inside the NER.

04:23

The neurons, brains, nerve cells,

04:25

cell bodies, and the Brown lumps represent circle,

04:29

emulate beta plucks. Which clumped together in the extracellular space.

04:35

And these protein accumulations are believed to be the cause

04:39

of massive neuronal death,

04:41

an eventual cognitive decline as seen in many forms sentiment.

04:47

Now these proteins are protein fragments,

04:50

Tau and beta amyloid. There are natural byproduct of our

04:54

metabolism as we eat,

04:56

think, sleep. We produce these mataba lick waste product and

05:01

so their presence in natural.

05:03

But this accumulation is a natural right seems to.

05:08

And these are diseases where we really we really do

05:13

not understand.

05:14

The origins of these diseases we do not understand how

05:18

to treat them.

05:19

But one of the hypothesis is that perhaps it could

05:22

be something wrong with the natural transport of these proteins

05:26

out of the brain.

05:27

Something that goes wrong with the clearance of the brain.

05:31

We don't, we don't know,

05:33

but this is one of many viable paths Tim Esque.

05:39

So This is why we are so interested in these

05:42

modes of solid transferred and how die moves inside and

05:46

out of brains.

05:47

And the idea is that understanding the transport mode in

05:51

brain tissue could be key in understanding many neurodegenerative diseases.

05:57

And in some speculate, even that if if these solids

06:00

move faster in the brain during sleep,

06:03

perhaps that is really the purpose of sleep.

06:06

That's the purpose of sleep is to clean up from

06:09

each day's party in the brain.

06:14

But if I now and this this is this kind

06:18

of topic,

06:19

is what I refer just the brain's waterscape?

06:24

How fluids, transport, move and flow?

06:29

Through and around the brain and in its environment.

06:35

But if we assume out of the brain for a

06:37

minute,

06:38

we can think about how does this work in the

06:41

rest of the body.

06:42

How does surplus fluid, together with metabolic waste dead cells,

06:46

bacteria, etc drained from the tissue?

06:49

Well, in the rest of the body we have the

06:52

lymphatic system.

06:53

The lymphatic system is.

06:58

Composed of lymph vessels and lymph nodes.

07:03

These vessels are filled with lymph a clear fluid.

07:08

And it drains the tissue of access fluids and other

07:12

waste product.

07:13

Now the lymphatic system has a lot of functions,

07:17

but this this is one of them.

07:20

And the lymphatic system was essentially characterized already in,

07:24

I would say the 17th century classicly and you can

07:28

see many classical illustrations of these.

07:32

Um and all of their often beautifully drawn,

07:35

any enough can see how they extend up here along

07:40

the neck and on the outside of the break.

07:44

Now I just wanted to know before I continue I

07:47

want to mention a fun fact.

07:49

So the word length, which is this clear fluid,

07:52

comes really from the word lymphatic,

07:55

who was the Roman goddess for clear spring water and

07:59

the Greek nymphs come from the same word.

08:02

But if we return to the point.

08:05

The lymph vessels extend through our entire body except in

08:11

the break.

08:12

There are no lymphatic vessels in the brain.

08:16

What there is is that there expecting emphatic vessels extend

08:21

up on the neck.

08:22

And around the skull they also extend into the circle

08:27

Durham membrane.

08:28

So let me just pass to give you a kind

08:31

of a brain anatomy 101.

08:33

So you have the brain when you think of this

08:36

kind of wobbly,

08:36

wobbly bit that I would think you must've read something

08:40

called the brain parent Kima.

08:41

And it's covered by three membranes,

08:43

so thin sheets you have the innermost circle dpia membrane.

08:47

Then you have the arachnoid membrane.

08:51

An on that at most membrane we have the dural

08:54

membrane.

08:55

And in the German brand,

08:57

there are indeed lymphatic vessels.

09:00

Now, these were originally discovered,

09:03

I think, by Polhamus. Connie,

09:05

around 1787.

09:07

The illustrated, these, and characterized these blood vessels in the

09:12

dura,

09:12

so The Alchemist membrane surrounding the brain.

09:15

Uh, but then this information was rather forgotten and actually

09:19

ridiculed.

09:20

So in later in the 18th and 19th.

09:22

Hundreds he was ridiculed for having seen lymphatic vessels,

09:27

where they do not exist.

09:30

But this magnetic missiles were rediscovered in two quite massively

09:37

popular papers from 2015 in 2016 where they rediscovered these.

09:43

Phatic vessels in the dural membrane,

09:46

and they also showed how they're connected to the CSF.

09:51

The cerebrospinal fluid that surrounds the brain.

09:56

In a layer between the PF,

09:58

the innermost membrane and the arachnoid membrane.

10:02

There's a space between those two membrane.

10:05

It's called the subarachnoid space.

10:08

So this CSF is cleared.

10:10

It has different roots, but in particular it's cleared through

10:15

the dural lymphatic vessels in the door,

10:18

but they do not extend inside the brain power kyma

10:24

itself.

10:24

So the question remains.

10:29

What is the lymphatic system and what place role of

10:32

the lymphatic system in the brain,

10:35

parent time? And that's essentially kind of the big question

10:39

that we are trying to address.

10:43

Because you know, our brain spent about at least 20%

10:47

of our metabolism. If we're thinking heavily,

10:50

it's much more so. It would be very strange if

10:54

the brain this delicate can organ does not have any

10:58

system for waste clearance.

11:00

But it, but it does not seem to have any

11:03

lymph vessels.

11:03

At least no one has been found,

11:05

so it it? It raised this question,

11:08

what could play the role of the lymphatic system?

11:12

And the even more fascinating answers into this question is

11:16

that that nobody knows.

11:18

There's there's really no consensus on this topic.

11:23

But Fortunately there are some theories.

11:26

This is a very active feelin in basic Physiology these

11:30

days,

11:31

and there's a lot of controversy and lot of discussions.

11:35

So something I think everyone agrees on is that their

11:39

diffusion does payroll.

11:41

It would be hard to not be so solids.

11:44

Do you move from kind of protein fragments that are

11:47

produced in this House will move through the tissue and

11:52

somehow out via diffusion.

11:54

Everyone agrees on this. But the question is if there

11:58

exists also any other modes of transport.

12:02

For instance, any connection based routes.

12:07

Where, for instance, one could imagine that CSF,

12:10

the Cerebro spinal fluid that mainly occupies the space outside

12:15

the brain,

12:15

could also move into the brain.

12:18

Along so called para vascular pathways,

12:21

the Paradise Club pathways are Spade hypothesize to be spaces

12:26

surrounding the blood vessels,

12:28

arteries and veins. The small arterioles,

12:32

venules and down, at the capillary level.

12:36

That extend into the brain.

12:38

And it's hypothesized that these paravesical space is kind of

12:42

actors,

12:42

highways for fluid movement in the brain.

12:47

So in a way, one can imagine that these para

12:50

vascular spaces surrounding the Blood Vessels Act as the lymphatic

12:54

vessels of the brain.

12:56

And some people argue that there is indeed.

12:59

Fluid flow.

13:02

Through the parasca spaces, maybe through the tissue itself.

13:07

But the different groups very much arguing whether this exists

13:12

at all and what the directionality would be.

13:15

Whether there are things solutes are transported in on the

13:20

arterial side,

13:21

or whether there are transported out on the arterial side.

13:26

So as a mathematician, this is a.

13:28

This is a puzzling and fun topic to to enter

13:32

into our adventure into because there's so little that's known

13:37

and there's so little consensus.

13:40

Then we decided to start addressing this topic.

13:45

And I think I think we're making some good headway

13:49

because part of why there's so much disagreement and so

13:52

little consensus is because experimental research on the brain is

13:57

very hot. Phone number reasons are practically,

14:00

it's hard because the brain is.

14:02

Enclosed in the skull and in sports,

14:05

it seems like a clear almost a closed system.

14:09

Inside the body. So the moment you manipulated moment you

14:15

inject fluid or inject solids.

14:18

You're tampering with the system the moment you open anything

14:22

up.

14:22

In order to measure something,

14:24

you're also tampering with the system.

14:26

So for this reason it's practically difficult to perform experiments

14:31

on the brain.

14:31

And of course there's also this magic ethical aspect,

14:35

in particular with humans.

14:38

What type of studies you can perform?

14:41

So this is where mathematics is.

14:44

We're hoping to play a role and we have a

14:47

number of research projects focusing on developing mathematical models for

14:54

the brain sworder scope.

14:56

We are trying to make better a new numerical methods

15:00

simulation software and really try to bring better physiological understanding

15:07

using mathematics as an annual investigation.

15:10

Here's my lovely team, so we're talking about 15 to

15:16

20.

15:16

People at similar research lab in Oslo and at the

15:21

University of Oslo.

15:22

Much of the work I'm presenting now is is thanks

15:26

to them.

15:27

So let's dig in an I wanted to first start

15:31

by saying something about what more about what are these

15:36

modes of solid transport in the break.

15:39

So we have a very I would say.

15:45

Interesting collaboration with new radiologist and neurosurgeons at also University

15:51

Hospital in particular gating Stamp Act is still Ada.

15:55

And they're really using cutting edge.

15:58

Kinda clinical techniques for imaging how solutes and Bolton move

16:04

in the human brain.

16:05

And what they do? They've developed a new methodology called

16:09

the pathetic Magnetic Resonance Imaging glymphatic MRI where they inject

16:14

a fluorescent tracer in the spinal down in the spinal

16:18

cord and they see how it moves up and into

16:22

the brain.

16:23

And what they find is that if you inject this

16:26

fluorescent kind of signal molecule,

16:29

but tracer in this battleground,

16:31

it will move up. A power through the neck and

16:35

it will also distribute in the entire break.

16:38

This is these findings are kind of the counter to

16:43

all what's been believed clinically up until about 10 years

16:50

ago.

16:51

That the tracer would. It's been believed that the brain

16:55

is kind of.

16:55

It's prevalent so it would not spread in there,

16:58

but we do really just say yes,

17:00

that residue spread into the brain from the CSF,

17:03

but the commissions observe is that they say it's unlikely

17:07

the diffusion alone explains this brain wide distribution,

17:11

but we wanted to set out to see to what

17:14

extent is this unlikely.

17:16

And we in particular we wanted to see what are

17:19

likely tracer distributions given the uncertainty that exists.

17:23

As I mentioned in you know,

17:25

since there's so much disagreement or what type of connection

17:29

pathways that could be there.

17:30

If they are there and also with the diffusion coefficients

17:35

and so on.

17:35

So we wanted to set out to see what unlikely

17:38

tracer distributions.

17:39

So we took the based on the clinical data.

17:43

We ran on numerical simulations over these.

17:47

A number of sample brains for remodeled different stochastic diffusion

17:52

and velocity fields,

17:54

and we computed number of quantity of interest in order

17:58

to estimate the kind of expected values as well as

18:02

the variance.

18:03

So let's look at this in a bit more detail.

18:06

What did we find? We started by modeling tracer evolution

18:11

with the standard diffusion connection reaction equation.

18:15

So, and we considered the parent Kima only,

18:18

So what we think what we think of as the

18:21

brain,

18:22

at least what I think of as the brain,

18:24

and we were interested in finding the solid concentration C

18:29

depended on time,

18:30

XT space, aksan regiments, Omega such that this diffusion connection

18:36

reaction equation.

18:37

Would hold with a convective velocity V.

18:42

And with an effective diffusion coefficient D star.

18:45

Throughout in this talk are their reaction term will be

18:51

0.

18:51

And we modeled the tracer spread via implicit boundary conditions.

18:55

We assume that the tracer would spread up through the

18:59

subarachnoid space.

19:01

SAS will always be in the subarachnoid space.

19:03

It's not Scandinavian Airlines, it's always subarachnoid space,

19:07

which is the space between the innermost number and appear

19:10

on the next membrane direct memory.

19:12

So that's where the CSF lives,

19:14

and we assume that we prescribe how it spreads there

19:18

based on the clinical images.

19:20

And then what we model and compute is how it

19:24

from their spreads into the parent Kima.

19:27

We started with a kind of a homogeneous constant diffusion

19:31

coefficient D start corresponding to the molecule there using ado

19:36

patrol of about 10 to the minus 10 meters per

19:39

second squared as a baseline model.

19:41

So this is a value from from the literature,

19:45

but it's quite uncertain. But we started with this as

19:49

a baseline.

19:50

And what we do you can see here or snapshots

19:54

goes to be a continuous representation here,

19:57

because he snapshot had a habit spreads after one hour,

20:01

8 hours and 24 hours.

20:02

We see even after 24 hours,

20:04

tracer flowing by diffusion only has penetrated substantially into the

20:09

Gray matter,

20:10

but not at all into these deep central regions.

20:18

So first I think we wanted to address is what

20:21

was the effect of the uncertainty in how large this

20:24

diffusion coefficient is.

20:26

So we included a stochastic diffusion coefficient.

20:32

Where you can see the probability distribution for this here

20:37

on the right and we allowed it to very two

20:40

to three order be two to three orders from two

20:43

to three times larger than two to three times smaller

20:47

essentially.

20:48

And then we computed the.

20:50

So we drew samples from this and computed the expected

20:54

and confidence intervals for the amount of tracer in the

20:59

Gray matter in the white matter.

21:01

So I would define this was that your brains essentially

21:05

are composed of Gray matter and white matter,

21:09

and roughly speaking the Gray matter,

21:11

at least the cortical Gray matter,

21:14

is a region kind of on the close to this,

21:17

the outer surface and the white matter is deeper inside

21:22

the brick.

21:23

Roughly so when we define the amount of Treasury Gray

21:26

matter,

21:26

we just compute the total amounts of the interval of

21:29

the concentration over the Gray matter,

21:32

and similarly for the white matter.

21:36

And what we did find was that the diffusion coefficient

21:40

magnitude did create substantial variation in all outfits.

21:45

The expected amount of. Tracer in greymatter by diffusion alone

21:50

would peak around 15 hours,

21:53

which is in in quite good agreement with the clinical

21:57

observations.

21:58

But there was an the expected amount of tracer in

22:02

the white matter would still be increasing.

22:05

It's been very far from from having reached a peak

22:09

after 24 hours.

22:13

We also investigated the effect of uncertainty in diffusion coefficient.

22:19

And in the field. So effect of heterogeneity but do

22:26

not find.

22:27

See noteworthy differences based on that.

22:33

So without a condom as our baseline,

22:36

we also wanted to model.

22:38

I can potential convective velocity field to see how would

22:44

the results change by adding.

22:47

Lost, it feels and what we did is that we

22:50

want to model the one of the hypothesis for convective

22:54

flow in the this paravesical space is called the glymphatic

22:59

hypothesis.

23:01

Now the glymphatic hypothesis. The idea is that.

23:07

Cerebral spinal fluid makes us with interstitial fluid,

23:11

which is essentially the fluid in the extracellular space is

23:16

running the brain,

23:17

and it flows in along para arterial spaces.

23:20

So Paravesical space is running the arteries.

23:24

It flows through the extracellular space and it flows out

23:28

on the venous side.

23:30

This is the glymphatic hypothesis.

23:33

And so we wanted to try to model is in

23:35

this large can of microscale level,

23:37

and we said it was essentially these three points.

23:41

We said that the velocity field correlation Lane should be

23:44

comperable to the mean distance between materials and manuals.

23:48

We said the party real impermanence pays are equally likely

23:51

at any point in space,

23:53

so the expected value of each of the last component

23:56

should be 0,

23:56

and we assume that we have conservation of mass.

24:00

So that the versions of you there,

24:02

sorry, we should be 0 and we should do Smith.

24:06

And then we defined I've lost field that essentially satisfied

24:10

these stipulations,

24:11

such as the expected value of the magnitude of loss

24:16

T.

24:16

This average last year about zero point 17 micro meters

24:20

per second,

24:21

which matches experimental findings and then we allowed for three

24:25

times larger than 10 times smaller values in this field.

24:31

So this is what we set up as our kind

24:34

of our first sub in Phatic model.

24:37

We use the diffusion coefficient as before.

24:40

The baseline diffusion coefficient. And we computed the amount of

24:45

tracer in the white and Gray matter.

24:48

But we also computed the average concentration into small regions.

24:53

One region in the Gray matter and one in the

24:56

white matter,

24:57

and this total amount that we call big Q little

25:01

at the average concentration we denote by small Q team.

25:06

And the results are shown here.

25:09

In a we have small QG and a small QWNB

25:12

an I think the the main point is that in

25:15

this game phatic circulation as we modeled here does not

25:20

enhance the global tracer influx at all.

25:24

In grey or white matter compared to pure diffusion.

25:29

You see, as minor increase in.

25:34

In this model. So which is the blue line compared

25:36

to the baseline model,

25:38

which is the dotted orange line in the average concentration

25:41

in Gray matter?

25:44

The Nile, but nothing in this global tracer quantities.

25:48

And we also saw very low variability in all outfits.

25:54

So our conclusion was that this is clearly not kind

25:58

of enough to see any enhanced global tracer influx.

26:06

No. In addition to this small,

26:10

shorter scale, so kind of at the arterial and venular

26:16

level.

26:17

Velocity Field it's also been observed that there seems to

26:21

be some large scale directionality associated with the respiratory and

26:27

cardiac pulse propagation and reported,

26:30

so we were interested in see well if you could

26:33

also include this large scale directionality in our model with

26:38

that enhance tracer transport.

26:40

So we made an additional model to look at the

26:43

effect of lymphatic circulation with directionality.

26:48

So in addition to our stochastic model.

26:51

For the velocity field, just representing the small scale.

26:56

Movement we added a kind of a deterministic directional field

27:01

V.

27:01

Do that represent some kind of this is illustrated here

27:05

and is based on on the experiments for the cardiac

27:09

and respiratory pulse.

27:14

And what we did find now is that with this

27:16

circulation we have directionality.

27:18

We do see that the expected amount of tracer in

27:22

the white matter increases.

27:24

Erin Abby, we show the amount to tracer in Gray

27:27

matter.

27:28

Amanda Tracer in white matter the average concentration in Gray

27:32

matter and average concentration in white matter.

27:36

The Gray bars are the 99%

27:38

to 3% confidence intervals for the baseline model.

27:42

She thinks no, not the best lamb,

27:44

but the the one where we have us to castec

27:48

diffusion constant.

27:49

So that's the orange one.

27:51

The blue one is this.

27:55

Kind of a small scale Glymphatic model V1 and the

27:59

red one is this new one where we also have

28:01

directionality.

28:05

The average trace concentration in the in one of those

28:08

small grey region is larger than for diffusion,

28:12

but that's the only kind of quantity of interest.

28:15

But we do see something that's different with very high

28:18

confidence,

28:19

so that the confidence intervals extend outside that of the

28:23

model D1.

28:27

So it's sunrise will be so low is that these

28:29

uncertainty in the diffusion parameters substantially impacted all of our

28:34

output quantities.

28:35

We did find that diffusion matched the clinical observations in

28:39

the Gray matter,

28:40

and this is kind of in the outermost regions.

28:43

Well in fact, but it was not sufficient to transport

28:46

trace it deep into the parent climbers can see from

28:49

later time points the glymphatic blasty S as it's been

28:53

proposed originally, did not increase transport in into any other

28:58

regions considered unless it's been augmented by a flow field

29:02

with a large scale directionality.

29:05

So in short, diffusion seems almost sufficient to explain the

29:09

clinical observations,

29:10

but not quite. But there needs to be some kind

29:13

of large scale directionality in the flow field to have

29:16

it affect.

29:20

So this brings us to the next question,

29:22

namely, if there is such a large scale convective flow

29:26

field,

29:26

something needs to drive it.

29:29

And what could that be?

29:38

So it's well known that your brain is not a

29:42

completely still organ,

29:44

it pulse it's. So during systole blood flows up and

29:49

into the brain and the brain expands and shifts a

29:53

bit and it pushes this cerebral spinal fluid that surrounds

29:58

it down into the spinal canal.

30:02

And this and this reverses during day asking.

30:05

This of this he said goes back up and venous

30:09

blood is pushed out of the brain.

30:11

So the brain is a pulsar type Hogan and this

30:14

can be in images.

30:16

This can be in views or using measurements.

30:19

This can be observed in several ways.

30:21

It can be observed in the so called intracranial pressure

30:26

I CP.

30:27

And it can be observed in measurements of the CSF

30:32

flow.

30:32

So if one it puts a pressure catheter inside the

30:35

brain environment.

30:36

So for instance, here it's inside the ventricles.

30:40

Bitter fluid filled cavities inside the brain.

30:43

We will observe this positive pressure that pulsates with the

30:47

cardiac cycle.

30:48

An depending on whether it's patients,

30:51

a human, this he, patients or non patients,

30:54

you will see a rise in time,

30:57

so this is time here on the X axis and

31:00

the pressure on the Y axis.

31:02

You'll see about four to 8 millimeters of Mercury.

31:06

Change each cardiac cycle.

31:10

What is not well known is how this time kind

31:13

of chases pulsatile aspie distributes in space.

31:16

There's quite a bit of discussion on this,

31:18

but it's just very few measurements.

31:21

But I will get back to that very shortly.

31:23

But if you measure this AICP,

31:25

you will see a very clear kind of cardiac component

31:29

ever,

31:29

one peak every.

31:32

Kind of beat, but if you instead as many others

31:36

do not very many measure these pressures but many others

31:41

look at the flow of CSF.

31:43

In some of these regions,

31:45

aqueduct or down here, we'll see.

31:50

Lots of the flow, or maybe the flux,

31:52

the volume movement of CSF as you see here on

31:56

the right.

31:57

And here the main peaks are not cardiac pics.

32:01

These are respiratory piece and the cardiac waves are only

32:07

these kind of ripples on the surface.

32:10

So this is created a bit of a.

32:13

A conundrum for the conditions in that,

32:16

or at least the discussion point with it asking the

32:20

question,

32:21

what is really this dominant pulsation affect?

32:24

Is it the cardiac signal,

32:26

or is it the respiratory signal that is?

32:29

Important to model and to take into account.

32:32

And as is, there's desperate.

32:34

Finding some. See clearly say that the it's so much

32:38

more clear in the cardiac one,

32:40

while others say the respiratory one is much more clear.

32:43

This is led to a better discussion on this,

32:46

so this is another point where we thought that modeling

32:50

could help in answering and reconciling this finding.

32:55

So what we we did was that we had access

32:58

to quite unique data set of.

33:00

Long term internal pressure measurements where they put in different

33:06

patients where they put one sensor inside the ventricles and

33:10

one sensors subdural E so inside the dura.

33:14

And some of them were even inside the brain,

33:16

parent Kima. And they simultaneously mastered pressures.

33:20

I think only one group in the world more or

33:23

less has have done this in humans and you'll get

33:26

this pressure recordings that you see examples up here.

33:29

You see a zoom in where you see the orange

33:32

and the blue are different the different locations.

33:35

And you see they match very closely,

33:38

but that there perhaps is a small difference between the

33:42

two locations.

33:43

Down here I plotted the pressure difference.

33:46

The difference between the two locations.

33:49

You see that it's it's brother noisy,

33:52

but if you zoom in on it,

33:54

you see that there does seem to be a bit

33:57

of a difference.

33:59

And we modeled this difference,

34:01

extracted the kind of the for her components,

34:04

and found two main components.

34:06

There's a cardiac and respiratory component.

34:12

And we found that this was about,

34:15

you know, the pressure difference we've seen is of the

34:20

order,

34:20

maybe of amplitude up to between 0.2 and 0.4 millimeters

34:26

of Mercury.

34:27

So that seems to be the peak pressure difference between

34:32

these points in the brain.

34:34

Overtime will be also could do was to plug this

34:39

into another Stokes simulation of the flow in.

34:45

In for instance. So here we have the cerebral aqueduct,

34:49

which is one of the kind of fluid pathways that

34:53

are open and clear in the brain environment.

34:56

And we did find that this pressure gradient of around

35:00

0 up to 0.2 millimeters of Mercury can drive flow

35:04

of them lost in magnitude that they do see in

35:07

the UC MRI investigations. So that's I think that's very,

35:12

very promising, because it indicates that there are there are

35:16

very small,

35:16

but there are pressure gradients that can drive fluid movement

35:20

of the right magnitudes.

35:22

But we also could see was that it could also

35:25

reconcile this conundrum for the physiologist that these car deck

35:29

dominated pressure gradients.

35:31

If you plug this into Internet,

35:33

there still looks and it compute the resulting flow and

35:38

the resulting flow volumes.

35:40

Then what is cardiac dominated from the pressure will ever

35:44

induce respiratory volume dominated flow volumes,

35:47

so these are three different patients here,

35:50

and even though the original pressure influx clearly cardiac dominated

35:55

in almost sincere of the respiration,

35:58

will see that the respirations affect is very noticeable in

36:02

the computer flow leaves.

36:04

So this kind of increase makes the pressure and volume

36:07

measurements.

36:11

So I think I'll I'll now turn to ask,

36:14

so we've said that diffusion is almost enough,

36:17

but maybe not quite enough.

36:20

Now we've identified that there are.

36:23

Pressure gradients large enough to drive some flow to address

36:27

some convective flow of the right magnitudes in the brain,

36:31

but if it should brain flow in the brain,

36:33

how would it indeed flow?

36:36

So we view from a modeling perspective the brain as

36:40

a multi porous and elastic medium.

36:43

So the brain is really it's.

36:45

It's clearly elastic. It's very soft.

36:47

It's almost surprisingly soft, they say.

36:51

And it's also permeated by a number of fluid networks.

36:55

Partly the blood vessels, partly para vascular spaces if these

37:01

exist.

37:01

But also the extracellular space.

37:04

So the space between cells forms a network that's filled

37:08

with cerebral spinal.

37:10

Sorry interstitial fluid is water like fluid.

37:17

And to model this, it's typical to use bills questions

37:21

be also questions is set a time dependent linear partial

37:26

differential equation describe displacement flow in a pluralistic medium.

37:31

So the questions reads as follows.

37:34

We find the displacement you and the pressure P /

37:38

a domain Omega in time surity such a balance of

37:42

momentum and mass Holtz.

37:44

So here we have the divergent of two mu times

37:47

the linearized strain epsilon,

37:49

AU plus Lambda times diversity.

37:52

You minus the pressure stuff.

37:54

So here you have the balance on momentum.

37:57

He had a balance of mass,

37:58

so the coefficient C zero times the time derivative of

38:03

P plus divergance attempted to re you minus.

38:07

Divergents of K which is the hydraulic conductivity.

38:11

Great into P is equal to surface a force Jesus

38:15

prescribed source.

38:17

And I put it the reason why I think feels

38:21

question so fun is because in different regimes they produce

38:26

two other equations,

38:28

but in a sometimes a bit and kind of non

38:32

non trivial way.

38:34

And so there's two regimes that we're particularly interested in

38:37

looking at.

38:38

One is the lostorage, an incompressible regime.

38:43

This is when Lambda Ghost Infinity and that case see

38:47

zero.

38:48

This coefficient here is 0.

38:50

Then the Divergency view becomes zero and the system decouples

38:56

into a Darcy type system.

38:58

And analysis detect cyst.

39:03

Another case is when you are in a low storage.

39:06

An impermeable regime, also very relevant in the brain.

39:09

Depending on what your model and this is when.

39:13

The probability or conducted the hydraulic connections goes to 0K,

39:19

in which case the questions reduce almost to Stokes.

39:25

It should be a udot here,

39:27

but after time discretization it becomes almost looks.

39:32

So these relations to Dar sells distance Stokes points at

39:37

the questions are relevant when discretizing bills equations.

39:43

So with that, let's just take a bit of a

39:46

aside tour and we were.

39:47

If you're looking at this conversation so Bill equation,

39:51

we would like to be need to know a bit

39:54

about stability of cell point problems.

39:58

So the general form of saddle point problems in variational

40:03

form takes this abstract form.

40:05

So if you're interested in finding and variable U&P such

40:10

that this system here holds.

40:12

Um?

40:14

A number of conditions need to be satisfied in order

40:20

for solutions to valuable post.

40:23

So if we take the example of if we take

40:25

those equations and discretizing time and set,

40:28

say, the time step to one.

40:31

We also questions will fit this abstract form.

40:34

With a U, the other sister Beth view the divergent.

40:39

See you and this perturbation term corresponding to the storage

40:46

and the permeability.

40:48

An abstract telepoint problems are well posed.

40:51

If a BNC, these personal forms are continuously is positive

40:56

definite and exists.

40:57

Parameters Alpha and beta such that these conditions The Legend

41:03

Scale published Kubert See conditions hold.

41:06

And it's well known if you try discretizations that will

41:10

not satisfy the discrete quivalence of these stability conditions,

41:14

you will often get solutions that do absolutely not make

41:18

sense.

41:18

In this illustration, I think I've discretized Darcy equations using

41:23

a stable discretization on the right.

41:25

We get a reasonable looking solution and an unstable discretization

41:29

on the left.

41:30

We just have a kind of a staggered checkerboard.

41:34

But that is absolutely does not make sense.

41:39

So this brings us down to but.

41:42

But for real, in the case where K goes to

41:45

zero,

41:46

what are the right stability criteria in this case?

41:51

It's now we're looking at a version of bills.

41:54

The question where we introduced an additional variable,

41:57

the flux set and I'm listed in in variational form,

42:01

so it's now listed here.

42:02

Here's our variational form of the momentum equation equation for

42:06

the flux in terms of the pressure.

42:09

So the flux set is defined as the gradient said,

42:12

and here's the conservation of mass equation.

42:16

Now Rodrigo and Colors in 2018 introduced the concept of

42:20

Stokes pure stability.

42:22

They showed that discrete spaces.

42:26

Our so called Stokes Bule stable and give good discretizations

42:30

if this elastic form is better than coercive,

42:34

and the pairing of human cues so the pairing for

42:37

the velocity and the pressure.

42:39

Sorry the displacement and pressure space is still stable.

42:44

And the pairing for the flux and the pressure space

42:48

is Darcy stable.

42:50

Now if you go back to look at our links

42:53

to the.

42:57

A different equations, perhaps this becomes.

43:01

The link to Stokes equation becomes very clear.

43:05

The link to Dalasi equations analysis Tuloso seems reasonable.

43:12

And this is been a very nice in effect in

43:16

Vail designing this Critter Station.

43:19

As for ya'll equations in the limits as K goes

43:22

to 0.

43:26

However, what we did fine and what?

43:28

For that matter other server observed before as well is

43:32

that even if you use discretizations that are not classically

43:36

Darcy stable?

43:37

So here for instance, I've used the discretization that does

43:41

not satisfy the darcee stability condition.

43:44

And here I used the discretion station that do they

43:47

still they still seem fine.

43:49

And it turns out that you can define a minimal

43:52

version of Circle Stokes pure stability,

43:54

where instead of the Dorset stability you assume that the

43:58

diverges of the flux versus included in the pressure space.

44:02

And we can show that these solutions that satisfy these

44:07

smaller conditions will indeed converge as expected.

44:11

The reason for this is at all,

44:14

I think, important in our view,

44:17

is because finding spaces that are Darcis table in the

44:22

limit as.

44:23

Kate goes to serial is very tricky and and in

44:28

fact more you need to introduce waited moves for this.

44:35

Um? I will wrap up very soon.

44:39

I want you to say a little bit about the

44:42

incompressible case as well.

44:45

So we're also working with in the brain teacher.

44:48

I think most it's assumed that it's it's nearly incompressible

44:52

sisters.

44:53

So much fluid water like fluids involved.

44:57

So we are also working.

44:58

I'm interested in in cases where the Lum Dallas District

45:03

property goes to Infinity.

45:05

And to model the brain tissue,

45:07

we've worked externally, generalizing biasa questions to include more fluid

45:12

networks,

45:13

to include bladex. Different plant networks are trees Daniel,

45:17

scapulars and so on. In addition to extracellular space.

45:22

You said so called multiple network poor elistist equations.

45:26

And they've been introduced for brain tissue by Talia Mantikas

45:30

about a decade ago,

45:31

and that we've started studying numerically now.

45:36

I think I will not go into much detail,

45:39

I just want to say that the standard formulation of

45:42

these equations suffers from kind of the typical locking and

45:47

loss of convergence in the incompressible limit.

45:50

But we can introduce a total pressure variational formulation and

45:55

prove that this will restore the optimal convergence human in

46:00

the incompressible limit.

46:04

So with that I think I'll I'll wrap it up.

46:08

I've included a number of references here and I would

46:13

like to thank my collaborators and send the core message

46:19

that.

46:19

Mathematical models can give new insight into Physiology and medicine,

46:24

but also that the human brain,

46:26

I would say, gives an extraordinary rich setting for mathematics

46:31

and numerics,

46:32

and I encourage more mathematicians to dig it.

46:35

OK, thank you. Thank you very much Maria for this

46:39

very interesting lecture.

46:41

We have time for a couple of questions,

46:44

maybe just to start the discussion.

46:46

I can start by asking a question.

46:49

So what is the what is the perspective here?

46:52

So you assume that the fluid flow inside the brain

46:55

satisfies some complicated formal Tapio equations and then that provides

47:00

you the velocity,

47:02

the bulk velocity and then you do tracer transport with

47:06

respect to this velocity and some diffusion.

47:09

And you hope to recover the.

47:12

The, let's say the tracer concentration correctly is that is

47:17

that the vision or somehow the link was at least

47:20

to me a little bit unclear,

47:22

right?

47:25

What you're pointing at is much much of the vision

47:29

rate,

47:30

but.

47:35

At first step is to see if we can use

47:38

these multiple network.

47:40

Equations to say something reasonable about pressures and the resulting

47:46

velocities and the resulting displacements in the brain at all.

47:52

This is this is unclear,

47:54

but I think it's first.

47:56

It's very illuminating too.

48:00

To see what the then our numerical simulations tell us

48:04

and how we can relate it in terms of,

48:07

for instance displacements, elastic displacements in terms of how would

48:13

you make sense of these.

48:15

I can average blood pressures.

48:18

Can we compare the intracranial pressures that we computed with

48:23

into Grendel pressures in the brain?

48:25

And also couple it to the fluids in the brain

48:29

environment.

48:30

Where much more I would say is known.

48:33

So this is kind of the validation.

48:35

This kind of knowledge integration and validation is the first

48:40

step.

48:40

Because I think that.

48:43

This forces us to try to and everyone to kind

48:47

of bring the knowledge of the different clinical measurements and

48:53

the Physiology together.

48:55

I don't think we're there yet,

48:57

but once we're there then one can start making predictions

49:01

about how these different changes in the permeability how different

49:05

regional changes.

49:06

For instance as result of a stroke or if you

49:09

have a subarachnoid bleeding,

49:11

and so on. How this could affect the flow patterns?

49:14

Yes, OK, thank you. So there is a question,

49:17

but on pens in the treasure in the trace diffusion

49:20

numerical study for the case that the external boundary conditions

49:25

are no flux.

49:25

There is the question is,

49:27

are these no flux external boundary conditions or not?

49:31

Right so.

49:34

On the ventricle, so that in the list,

49:37

roughly speaking to boundaries, there's the ventricles.

49:41

Then we just say no flux,

49:43

but in the time simulation time we've simulated.

49:48

The tracer hasn't reached there yet either,

49:51

so I don't think it would affect much on the

49:54

outer region where we assume it's in touch with the

49:58

CSF where the tracer is.

50:00

Injected we use this.

50:03

Implicit type boundary conditions so that we can serve mass.

50:06

Yes, so I think that's the last part of the

50:09

question,

50:09

right? So the total amount of traces.

50:12

Disconsolate yes, so it does.

50:14

Then there's a question about the validity of Navier Stokes

50:17

simulations.

50:18

What are the scales for the boundary conditions?

50:21

In particular, is it a valid approach or the particle

50:24

based method be more appropriate?

50:26

So we've used Navier Stokes for the larger.

50:31

Could have fluid compartments, and now I'm in compartment really

50:36

in open spaces of the brain.

50:38

So these for instance in the subarachnoid space and in

50:42

the aqueduct.

50:43

And these are compartments where I would say now we're

50:46

Stokes or Stokes even are reasonable assumptions.

50:50

These are relatively big in comparison to everything else.

50:54

We have definitely not used these for para vascular spaces,

50:58

for instance, which could be of the order blood vessels

51:01

down to micro meters,

51:02

so the size of red blood vessels at the capillary

51:04

level.

51:07

Maybe I have another question,

51:09

so in this let's say the first part of your

51:12

dog.

51:12

You had this, you had a bulk sort of convective

51:16

velocity,

51:16

and you also had a small scale convective velocity and

51:20

your message was the small scale convexity.

51:23

Convective velocity didn't really matter,

51:26

so that is that correct?

51:27

So if I completely neglect it,

51:30

put it to 0, do we?

51:31

Do we still see the same effects,

51:33

or is that it? Does it still act at a

51:37

small scale?

51:38

Yeah, so I guess it does not have an effect

51:40

on the large scale influx,

51:42

so this global influx you'll see an effect on the

51:46

small scale.

51:47

Up

51:49

there are no further questions.

51:51

We are a bit short of time today,

51:52

so let's thank Maria for a very interesting talk.

51:55

And yeah, yeah, and you want to say something about

51:59

the next lecture.

52:00

Yeah, well, first of all,

52:01

thanks again to both Mary and sit also you for

52:04

checking the talk is really interesting.

52:06

One thing today.

52:09

And thanks everybody for joining you up for next week,

52:12

which will be actually our last session webinar session this

52:16

year.

52:16

It will be marketed as a Wolf wolfram.

52:18

Actually I posted in the chat before I get on

52:20

my feet,

52:21

models and pedestrian dynamics. So again,

52:23

I think an interesting application of keys are quite different

52:26

one,

52:27

but. I guess it's kind of the goal to show

52:30

the variety of PDE research.

52:32

Yeah, so thanks everyone for joining,

52:35

so feel free to join again next week,

52:38

same time, same place and feel free to check out

52:42

our recordings on the website of the webinar,

52:45

OK?

52:47

And yeah, it's nice use it.

52:49

Thank you very much, Marie and.

52:52

See you all, hopefully again in the future.

52:54

Bye bye.

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