Open in TheBrain

Artificial Intelligence

This is a Q&A excerpt on the topic of AI from a lecture by Richard Feynman from September 26th, 1985.

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• Richard Feynman C...

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this is a Q&A excerpt on the topic of

0:02

artificial intelligence from a lecture

0:04

by Richard Fineman

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from September 26 1985 I really record

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the audience questions because they're

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barely audible in the original question

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do you think there will ever be a

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machine that will think like human

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beings and be more intelligent than

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human beings

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first of all they think like human

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beings I would say no and I'll explain

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in a minute why I say no and second that

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they be more intelligent in human beings

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is a question intelligences to be

0:33

defined if you were to ask me are they

0:35

better chess players than any human

0:37

being possibly can be yes I'll get you

0:39

someday now they're best better chess

0:42

players than most human beings right now

0:44

one of the things by the way that we

0:46

always do is we want the dawn machine to

0:48

be better than anybody not just better

0:50

than us if we find a machine it can play

0:52

chess better than us it doesn't impress

0:54

us much we keep saying it and what

0:55

happens when it comes up against the

0:57

Masters we imagine that we human beings

1:00

are equivalent to the Masters and

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everything right the machine has to be

1:03

better than a person in everything that

1:06

the best person does at the best level

1:09

okay but it's hard on the machine but

1:12

with regard to the question of whether

1:13

to make it to think like a machine my

1:15

opinion is based on the following idea

1:18

that we try to make these things to work

1:21

as efficiently as we can with the

1:22

materials that we have materials are

1:24

different than nerves and so on if we

1:29

would like to make something that runs

1:30

rapidly over the ground then we could

1:33

watch a cheetah running we could try to

1:36

make a machine that runs like a cheetah

1:38

but it's easier to make a machine with

1:40

wheels with fast wheels or something

1:42

that flies just above the ground in the

1:44

air when we make a bird the airplanes

1:48

don't fly like a bird they fly but they

1:51

don't fly like a bird okay so they don't

1:54

flap the wings exactly they have in

1:55

front another guy of a gadget that goes

1:57

around or the more modern airplane has a

2:00

tube that you heat this the air and

2:02

squirt it out the back a jet propulsion

2:05

a jet engine as an internal rotating

2:10

fans and so on and it uses gasoline it's

2:12

different right so there's no question

2:15

that the later machines are not going to

2:17

think like people think in that sense

2:20

with regard to intelligence I think it's

2:25

exactly the same way for example they're

2:27

not going to do arithmetic the same way

2:29

as we do arithmetic but they'll do it

2:30

better let's take bath ematic very

2:32

elementary mathematics arithmetic

2:35

they do arithmetic better than anybody

2:36

much faster and differently but it's

2:41

fundamentally the same because in the

2:42

end the numbers are equivalent right so

2:44

that's a good example of we're never

2:46

going to change how they do arithmetic

2:47

to make it more like humans that would

2:49

be going backwards because the

2:52

arithmetic done by humans is slow

2:53

cumbersome and Confused in a full of

2:55

errors where these guys are fast if one

2:59

compares her what computers can do to

3:01

the human beings we find the following

3:05

rather interesting comparisons the first

3:07

of all if I give you a human being a

3:10

problem like this I'm going to ask you

3:13

for these numbers back every other one

3:16

in reverse order please right now I'm

3:20

good a series of numbers and I want them

3:21

to you didn't give me one to me back in

3:23

reverse order every other one I'll tell

3:26

you I'll make it easy for you just give

3:27

me the numbers back the way I gave them

3:28

to you you ready one seven three nine

3:35

two six five eight three one seven two

3:45

six three

3:47

anybody got a gonna be able to do that

3:50

now and that's more than not more than

3:53

twenty or thirty numbers but you can

3:56

give a computer 50,000 numbers like that

3:59

in s confirm any reverse order the sum

4:01

of them all do different things with

4:03

them and so on and it doesn't forget

4:04

them for a long time instead of so there

4:06

are some things that a computer does

4:07

much better than a human and you'd

4:09

better remember that if you kind of

4:10

compare machines to humans but what a

4:12

human has to do for his own always they

4:15

always do this they always try to find

4:18

one thing don''t that they can do better

4:20

than the computer so we now know many

4:22

many things that the humans can do

4:24

better than a computer she's walking

4:26

down a street she's got a certain kind

4:28

of a wiggle and you know that Jane right

4:33

or the sky's going in and you see his

4:36

hair flip just a little bit it's hard to

4:38

see at a distance but that particular

4:39

funny way that he did back of his head

4:41

looks that's jack okay to recognize

4:46

things to recognize patterns

4:48

seems to be something that we have not

4:50

been able to put into a definite

4:52

procedure you would say I have a good

4:54

procedure for recognizing jack just take

4:57

a lots of pictures of Jack by the way a

5:00

picture can be put into the computer in

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fact by this method here if this were

5:04

very much finer I could tell whether

5:05

it's black and white at different spots

5:07

you know you in fact you get pictures in

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a newspaper by black and white dots and

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if you do Stuart fine enough you can't

5:13

see the dots so with enough information

5:14

I can load pictures in so you put all

5:16

the pictures of of Jack on the different

5:20

circumstances and that's the machine to

5:22

compare it the trouble is that the

5:23

actual new circumstance is different the

5:25

lighting is different the distance is

5:27

different the tilt of the head is

5:28

different and you have to figure out how

5:30

to allow for all that and it's so

5:32

complicated and elaborate that even with

5:34

the large machines with the amount of

5:35

storage that's available and the speed

5:37

that they go we can't make figure out

5:39

how to make a definite procedure that

5:42

works at all or what least it works

5:44

anywhere within a reasonable speed so

5:47

recognizing things is difficult for the

5:50

machines at the present time and some of

5:52

those things are done in a snap by a

5:54

person so there are things that humans

5:57

can do that the we don't know how to do

5:59

in a filing system so it is recognition

6:04

and that brings me back to something I

6:05

left which is what kind of a file clerk

6:08

can't be imitated by the machine a file

6:11

clerk that has some special skill which

6:13

represent which requires recognition of

6:16

a complicated kind for instance a fire

6:18

Kirk in the fingerprint Department which

6:21

looks the finger prints and then makes a

6:23

careful comparison to see if these

6:24

finger prints match has not been it's

6:28

just about ready to be it's hard to do

6:30

it almost possible to do by a computer

6:33

did say there's nothing to it I look at

6:35

the two fingerprints and see if all the

6:36

blood dots are the same but of course

6:38

it's not the case the finger was dirty

6:40

the print was made at a different angle

6:42

the pressure was different than the

6:44

ridges are not exactly in the same place

6:46

if you were trying to match the exactly

6:48

the same picture would be easy but where

6:50

the center of the print is which way the

6:52

finger is turned where there's been

6:54

squashed a little more a little bit less

6:55

where there's some dirt on the finger

6:57

whether in the meantime you got a wart

6:58

on his thumb and so forth

7:01

complications these little complications

7:04

make the comparison so much more

7:05

difficult for the machine for the blind

7:07

filing clerk system that is too much

7:10

much much too slow to be certainly

7:12

utterly impractical almost at the

7:14

present time I don't know where they

7:16

stand but they're going fast trying to

7:17

do it where is a human can go across all

7:21

that somehow just like they do in the

7:23

chess game they seem to be able to catch

7:24

on the patterns rapidly and we don't

7:27

know how to do that

7:28

rapidly automatically audience question

7:33

can computers discover new ideas and

7:36

relationships by themselves well it

7:39

depends what do you mean themselves and

7:41

it's it's hard to discover new

7:44

relationships our computers can do there

7:48

have been computers which do things like

7:51

problems they are improving in geometry

7:55

or something in which they've converted

7:57

the problem of finding a proof of a

7:58

theorem into a definite procedure okay

8:02

and once you do that although it's an

8:04

elaborate and dumb way to do proofs they

8:07

can do it the present time a computer

8:10

can't do all the different things that a

8:12

person can do you know it's it's very

8:16

difficult to find some way of defining

8:18

rather precisely something we can do

8:20

that we can say a computer will never be

8:22

able to do there are some things that

8:27

people make up that say that while it's

8:30

doing it will it feel good or while it's

8:33

doing it will it understand what it's

8:36

doing or some other abstraction I'd

8:38

rather feel that these are things like

8:39

while it's doing it we'll be able to

8:41

scratch the lice out of its hair no it

8:43

hasn't got any hair the lice to scratch

8:45

from okay so there are if you've got to

8:50

be careful when you say what the human

8:51

does if you add to the actual result of

8:55

his effort some other things that you

8:57

like the appreciation of the aesthetic

9:00

but you didn't do that I'm not saying

9:01

you did but a lot of people do that when

9:03

they ask questions and if we add things

9:06

that we think we're doing on top of what

9:09

we actually do and just look at not just

9:11

the result of what we're doing but a lot

9:13

of extra things then it gets harder and

9:14

for the computer to do it because the

9:17

human beings have a tendency to try to

9:19

make sure that they can do something

9:21

that no machine can do somehow it

9:25

doesn't bother them anymore it must have

9:26

bothered them in earlier times that

9:28

machines are stronger physically than

9:30

they are they can lift weights that are

9:31

heavier than people who can move things

9:33

faster than people who can run fast if

9:35

you can fly you can do it's terribly

9:38

strengths and so forth and we don't

9:41

still sit around worrying that there's

9:43

some way that the man can turn his hand

9:45

that some machine can't do that we can

9:48

easily make machines that are better

9:50

than us in predicting the the weather

9:52

for instance because what you do to

9:55

predict the weather is to look at old

9:57

records and see when the circumstance

10:00

was similar and guess that the results

10:02

will be similar added to that a certain

10:04

amount of analysis of the movement of

10:06

wind according to the laws of physics

10:08

and their current amount of hocus-pocus

10:09

put together ok now the speed will be

10:12

higher and the effectiveness of the

10:14

prediction is greater if you could look

10:16

at more cases so you get a better chance

10:19

of getting one closer and put more a

10:21

longer and more elaborate calculation

10:24

including more variables which is too

10:25

hard for us to in time to make the

10:27

prediction now we have to make the

10:29

prediction of the weather let's say that

10:30

weather for three days from now has to

10:32

be predicted in three days or the damn

10:34

thing is useless right and we work at a

10:36

certain speed but the computers worked

10:38

faster and can do more and therefore for

10:40

instance for weather prediction in the

10:41

end maybe not today but someday it's not

10:44

at all inconceivable that the machine

10:45

could do weather prediction faster and

10:47

more effectively and more accurately

10:48

than we do we will have have however

10:51

given it the procedure now the question

10:54

is what happens if we don't give it the

10:56

procedure well a man that people have

11:00

tried that this game of giving it

11:02

instead of a direct procedure a kind of

11:05

what it has been called heuristics try

11:08

an analogy to get a new idea of how to

11:10

do something compare this to that try an

11:13

extreme case etc and a man by the name

11:17

of Lynette has gone the farthest with

11:19

this do I have time much time do I have

11:21

because we want to see these slides

11:24

what I know that's interesting

11:26

information but how much how much time

11:29

do I have

11:30

it's time for the slideshow now since I

11:33

have no more time I will say no more

11:35

about the subject what no but it it

11:40

takes a few minutes that's why I asked

11:41

for the time okay you make this machine

11:46

which was again a filing cabinet you

11:48

understand what it does is it looks it

11:50

tries to find the answer to something by

11:51

looking at the different possible

11:53

possibilities but which ones he tries is

11:56

something like patterns in the chest

11:58

instead of everything it says try moves

12:01

near the center of the board first you

12:03

know and never mind the ones in the

12:04

corner or something like that or some

12:07

sorts of principles and he first applied

12:10

it to a kind of naval game it's a game

12:14

that people play in California which is

12:16

all organized according to rules it's

12:18

kind of fun

12:20

someone sets out all the rules

12:22

dreadnoughts cost this much armor cost

12:24

this much guns cost this much and so

12:26

forth and you got this much budget for

12:28

your Navy and you're gonna make various

12:30

kinds of ships with different kinds of

12:32

armaments and then this kind of a ship

12:35

the armament of a certain thickness that

12:38

costs a certain amount can only resist

12:40

shells of a certain strength you know

12:42

and so on so you tried to with the money

12:45

arranged to buy different to design

12:47

different kinds of ships so that your

12:51

Navy is better than next one and when

12:53

they brought together there's ways of

12:55

calculating what there's not real navies

12:56

it's a game which is the best one and

12:59

all the rules are laid out but a great

13:01

big volume okay at the cost of

13:04

everything in the power of everything

13:06

armour-piercing possibilities and so on

13:09

and it's a nice game and mr lumic tried

13:12

to his program on this game and put into

13:15

his program your wrist extreme case and

13:19

things like that and he won the

13:24

championship in california of course it

13:26

did an awful lot of trying of different

13:28

cases you see but it didn't try every

13:29

case not like the chess game there were

13:31

too many things but it was guided by its

13:34

own stuff now inside of that

13:37

was this that if you got a better navy

13:39

bite your own calculation and you used

13:42

one of the heuristics mark that eristic

13:45

up a notch as being more valuable now

13:47

use the more valuable heuristics first

13:50

see so that the ability of the Machine

13:54

depended on his learning so to speak

13:57

which ones of his tricks works most

14:00

effectively most of the time and then

14:02

they become more used so it's just

14:04

exactly what you would like to make it

14:06

look intelligent well he won and how did

14:10

he win it turned out that year he won by

14:13

making one great big battleship with all

14:17

the armor on it which was so silly but

14:21

when you go to calculate it sure enough

14:22

it's better than any of the normal

14:23

things which nobody thought of but his

14:25

machine thought next year he entered

14:28

again and this time he won by making

14:32

tricking all his money in making one

14:34

hundred thousand because they changed

14:36

the rules so that the big battleship

14:38

wouldn't win you know but change it will

14:39

one hundred thousand little boats very

14:42

narrow carrying each one gun which were

14:45

very liable to be knocked out okay but

14:48

there were 100,000 of them didn't cost

14:50

much each one and they couldn't knock

14:52

them all out so he's lousy little gnats

14:55

would come and it turned out when you

14:57

calculated again he won the third year

15:00

he was not allowed to play in it

15:04

and here's a pride this this this

15:08

machine and this turistic business to a

15:10

number of other problems as tries it out

15:13

a lot and tries new heuristics and so

15:15

forth and it has become a very

15:17

interesting he complained that there

15:19

were a number of bugs in it and when he

15:21

gave a talk on it I said that I thought

15:24

I'll say my comment afterwards one of

15:27

the bugs for instance was that the

15:32

Machine got a heuristic and made up your

15:34

wrist except your wrist Excel

15:39

so the damn machine what he the way he

15:42

had it was because it's hard to get

15:43

computer time he needed a hell of a lot

15:45

of computer time he had 50 machines at

15:48

night from a you a packet company or

15:50

something like that he would work always

15:52

at night coming in the morning damn

15:53

things would try all my things and come

15:56

in with the results I used it to do

15:58

mathematics and various others thing it

16:01

comes in one day and it's done a

16:03

heuristic you develop the heuristic when

16:07

he puts the problem in or a new idea he

16:09

write it says whether it's from him or

16:11

from the machine and I was that learner

16:12

or a machine okay and this was every

16:16

year istic or every question that hasn't

16:20

won that on it pay no attention to that

16:23

saves a lot of time it could do much

16:25

better it didn't have any problem with

16:27

this toy boy so it paid no attention to

16:29

her than that bad night

16:30

okay sorry I'd fix that book the next

16:34

time he had a bug it was he looked was

16:37

he came in and he looked he found that

16:39

heuristic number 693 had gotten a score

16:43

of 999 out of a thousand is a damn

16:46

useful heuristic all night long this

16:48

thing kept using the heuristic 9 693

16:51

more and more and it was a new when

16:53

wonderful arista could seem to solve

16:55

every problem it was terrific okay when

17:00

you found out what the heuristic was was

17:01

the following you see in order to make

17:04

this thing work so that you change the

17:05

numbers on the heuristics whenever

17:07

something worked just to assign credit

17:10

so to speak to the heuristics that were

17:12

used okay so this heuristic was when

17:16

assigning credit

17:17

always the sign credit to heuristic 693

17:21

and so that thing came up out of I say

17:25

the both of these show intelligence if

17:29

you want to make an intelligent machine

17:30

you're going to get all kinds of crazy

17:32

ways of avoiding labor if I say don't

17:35

pay the attention to the problem of

17:37

sneakily evolving some kind of a

17:40

psychological distortion we always do

17:45

the same thing and don't worry about

17:47

anything else and so on so I think that

17:49

we are getting close to intelligent

17:52

machines but they're showing the

17:54

necessary weaknesses of intelligent

17:58

[Music]

17:58

[Applause]

18:14

you