Kerr, Clark
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</font><div><table id="bib_items" width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" align="center" class="bibItems" style="border-collapse: collapse; border: 0px rgb(211, 211, 211); background: none rgb(255, 255, 228); clear: both; padding: 8px 0px 0px; margin: auto; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12.4928px;"><tbody><tr class="bibItemsEntry"><td width="32%" style="border-top: 1px solid rgb(236, 236, 236); border-bottom: none; vertical-align: top; padding: 1px 8px; margin: 0px;"> <a href="https://library.ucsc.edu/mchenry/mchenry-library-floor-plans" target="blank" style="color: rgb(124, 20, 184);">McH Stacks</a></td><td width="40%" style="border-top: 1px solid rgb(236, 236, 236); border-bottom: none; vertical-align: top; padding: 1px 8px; margin: 0px;"> <a href="http://cruzcat.ucsc.edu/searchS5?/cLD760+.R67+2013/cld++760+r67+2013/-3,-1,,E/browse" style="color: rgb(124, 20, 184);">LD760 .R67 2013</a> </td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">
</font><div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4"><a href="https://www.c-span.org/video/?308816-1/subversives">https://www.c-span.org/video/?308816-1/subversives</a></font></div><div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">
</font></div><div><span class="time" style="margin: 0px 0px 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-weight: 600; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-transform: uppercase; display: block; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><time style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">SEPTEMBER 19, 2012</font></time></span><div class="more_info" style="margin: 0px 0px 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p style="margin: 0px 0px 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.4em; vertical-align: baseline;"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span class="video-page-title" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: 700; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;"><em style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">Subversives</em></span> <a href="https://www.c-span.org/person/?sethrosenfeld" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; transition: color 0.35s; outline: 0px; text-decoration-line: none;">Author Seth Rosenfeld</a>, former investigative reporter for the <i style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://www.c-span.org/organization/?5370/San-Francisco-Chronicle" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; transition: color 0.35s; outline: 0px; text-decoration-line: none;">San Francisco Chronicle</a></i> and <i style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://www.c-span.org/organization/?6367/San-Francisco-Examiner" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; transition: color 0.35s; outline: 0px; text-decoration-line: none;">San Francisco Examiner</a></i>, talked about his book, <i style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">Subversives: The FBI’s War on Student Radicals, and <a href="https://www.c-span.org/series/?" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; transition: color 0.35s; outline: 0px; text-decoration-line: none;">Reagan</a>’s Rise to Power</i>. In his book, he reports on the FBI’s covert actions at the University of California, Berkeley in the 1960s. He argues that the J. <a href="https://www.c-span.org/person/?jhoover" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; transition: color 0.35s; outline: 0px; text-decoration-line: none;">Edgar Hoover</a>-led Agency attempted to weaken activist student groups, including the <a href="https://www.c-span.org/organization/?34198/Free-Speech-Movement" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; transition: color 0.35s; outline: 0px; text-decoration-line: none;">Free Speech Movement</a> (FSM). Mr. Rosenfeld’s research draws upon 250,000 pages from the Agency’s files</font></p></div></div><div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">
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</font><div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4"><a href="https://kpfa.org/episode/105231/">https://kpfa.org/episode/105231/ </a> 12/17 ok 3 pm 30 min Q&A; 1 hr sp videotaped</font></div><div><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">
</font><div><div align="left" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 1px;"><font color="#000000" class="size12 Helvetica12" style="line-height: 18px; min-height: 18px;" size="4" face="Times New Roman"><b style="line-height: 19px; min-height: 19px;">July 31, 2014</b>
</font></div><div align="left" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 1px;"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><font color="#000000" class="size12 Helvetica12" style="line-height: 18px; min-height: 18px;"><b style="line-height: 19px; min-height: 19px;">Fund Drive: </b></font><font color="#000000" class="size12 Helvetica12" style="line-height: 18px; min-height: 18px;">Seth Rosenfeld, </font><font color="#000000" class="size12 Helvetica12" style="line-height: 18px; min-height: 18px;"><i>Subversives.</i>
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</div><div align="left" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 1px;">jeh pulled plug on coin when media penn breakin revealed it (but may have k)</div><div align="left" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 1px;"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">
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</font></div><div><div class="slug-wrap" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 10px 140.094px; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; display: flex; align-items: center; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><h3 class="slug" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: 400; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; letter-spacing: 0.34px; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="https://www.npr.org/sections/interviews/" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration-line: none; display: block;"><font size="4" style="" face="Times New Roman" color="#000000">INTERVIEWS fresh air</font></a></h3></div><div class="storytitle" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 0px 140.094px; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; position: relative; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><h1 class="transcript" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 15px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: 400; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.2; vertical-align: baseline; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; letter-spacing: -0.00625em;"><a href="https://www.npr.org/2013/08/16/212381996/student-subversives-and-the-fbis-dirty-tricks" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration-line: none;"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman" color="#000000">Student 'Subversives' And The FBI's 'Dirty Tricks'</font></a></h1></div><div id="story-meta" class="story-meta" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 0px 140.094px; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; position: relative; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="story-meta__one" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 30px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;"><div class="dateblock" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;"><time datetime="2013-08-16T10:28:00-04:00" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;"><font size="4" style="" face="Times New Roman"><span class="date" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">August 16, 2013</span><span class="time" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">10:28 AM ET</span></font></time></div></div></div></div><div><div class="GGD0W3FBET"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">subversives: bk</font></div><div class="GGD0W3FBET"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><a href="https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=212381996">
</a></font></div><div class="GGD0W3FBET"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><a href="https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=212381996">https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=212381996</a></font></div></div><div class="GGD0W3FBET"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">...</font></div><div class="GGD0W3FBET"><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: I should explain. I had some files that I was able to show Mario before he passed away in '96, but most of the files I got were after he passed away. But some of the first files I got showed that the FBI had investigated the Free Speech Movement and attempted to discredit it, and when I showed these to Mario Savio, he was quite shocked. He said: Well, we always figured that the FBI was spying on us, but we never suspected that they would attempt to disrupt us.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">I also obtained a lot of FBI files concerning the president of the university, Clark Kerr, and when I met with Clark Kerr and showed him some of his FBI files, he was quite astonished that the FBI had tried to get him fired from his job as university president.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">The documents showed that J. Edgar Hoover had ordered agents to leak information to members of the board of regents in an effort to convince them that Clark Kerr was not being tough enough on student protesters and that he had to be fired.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">GROSS: Clark Kerr is such an interesting character in your book because as the president of the university, he felt that he did a lot to open up the campus to more speech. He allowed communists to speak on campus. He refused to punish people for dissident speech. But to the student activists, he was the establishment, who was not allowing them, like, sufficient free speech on campus, but to the FBI and to Governor Reagan, he just wasn't tough enough.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">So he lost on all sides, like, to the left and to the right, everyone was against him.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: Clark Kerr was the man in the middle, and he had done so much for the university. He is one of the towering figures in American higher education. He expanded the university, and he also developed the master plan for higher education, the system of colleges that's now used not only around the country but all over the world.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">He also opened the campus to free speech in many ways, but when the student movement in the early '60s began, he was taken by surprise. He didn't expect the students to be as aggressive as they were, and he was not quick enough to more fully open the campus.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">The Free Speech Movement was ultimately successful. It reversed the rule against students engaging in political activity on campus. Kerr later said he regretted that he had not acted more swiftly to lift that rule.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">GROSS: You write about what you learn from the Freedom of Information Act files, about how Ronald Reagan, who was then the governor of California, worked with the FBI to get the University of California at Berkeley President Clark Kerr removed from office. What did Reagan, with the FBI, do?</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: The FBI had been very frustrated with Clark Kerr for a long time. Hoover was very upset when Clark Kerr began to liberalize rules on political activities on campus. He saw Kerr as being too soft on protesters and maybe even a dangerous subversive himself. He tried to get Governor Pat Brown to fire Clark Kerr by secretly giving Pat Brown FBI reports about student protesters, and Pat Brown refused to that. He was a staunch ally of Clark Kerr's.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">So when Ronald Reagan was elected in 1966, after a campaign in which he made the protests at Berkeley one of his top issues, Hoover welcomed Reagan as a breath of fresh air and worked with him to stifle student protesters and to remove Clark Kerr from the presidency of the university.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">A few days after Ronald Reagan took office, he phoned the FBI, and he requested a secret briefing about student protesters, about liberal members of the board of regents and about Clark Kerr. A few weeks later, at the first board of regents meeting attended by Reagan, Reagan's board of regents fired Clark Kerr as one of its first acts.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">GROSS: So this was not the first time that Ronald Reagan had worked with the FBI. Their relationship dated back to when Ronald Reagan was an actor. And you say that you learned from the Freedom of Information Act files that you got that Ronald Reagan informed on fellow actors far more than has been known, or at least more than has been known. I don't want to overstate it.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: Yes, that's correct. Starting in Hollywood in the 1940s, Ronald Reagan developed a special relationship with the FBI. He became an FBI informer, reporting other actors whom he suspected of subversive activities, and later when he became president of the Screen Actors Guild, the FBI had wide access to the Guild's information. At one point, the Guild turned over information on 54 actors it was investigating as possible subversives.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">The FBI viewed Reagan as an extremely cooperative source in Hollywood. As a result of this, Hoover repaid him with personal and political favors later.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">GROSS: And what's an example of one of those favors?</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: The FBI did a personal and political favor for Ronald Reagan in 1965. FBI agents at the time were investigating the Bonanno crime organization. Joe Bananas, as he was known, was one of the most notorious mobsters in America and had recently moved to Arizona.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">FBI agents in Phoenix were investigating him when they discovered that Joe Bananas' son, Joseph Jr., was hanging out with Michael Reagan, who was the adopted son of Ronald Reagan and Jane Wyman, and they reported this to headquarters.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">The agents proposed that they should interview Ronald Reagan to see if he had learned anything about the Bonannos through his son. This investigation, after all, was a top priority. But Hoover interceded. He ordered them not to interview Ronald Reagan, and he instead told the agents to warn Ronald Reagan that his son was consorting with the son of Joe Bananas.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Ronald Reagan was very grateful for this.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">GROSS: You write that, you know, when Ronald Reagan was rising politically, there were parts of his past that could have been considered questionable because as governor, this meant, you know, overseeing the University of California system, which included, you know, atomic research laboratories and atomic research data. And so that's an important security position.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">And there were a couple of things in Reagan's past that the FBI might have been concerned about if it was somebody other than Ronald Reagan. Do you want to discuss that?</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: One of the interesting themes that emerged in reviewing all these FBI documents was how J. Edgar Hoover's FBI used information. In the case of Clark Kerr, at one point he was a candidate to be secretary of Health, Education and Welfare.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">So the FBI did a background report, and Hoover used this as a pretext to send President Lyndon Johnson a report loaded with allegations that Kerr had associated with various subversives, even though the FBI had already investigated these allegations and knew that they were untrue. And this all comes out in the documents.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">In contrast, when Ronald Reagan became governor, he had to undergo a similar background check because as governor, he would be a member of the board of regents and have oversight of the university's nuclear laboratories. During this investigation, the FBI went out of its way to help Ronald Reagan.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">When Ronald Reagan filled out his personnel security questionnaire as part of this investigation, he failed to list a number of organizations that he was involved in, in Hollywood in the '40s, organizations that had been designated by the federal government as being subversive.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Normally, this would send up red flags with the FBI. It would be seen as a serious omission. But in Ronald Reagan's case, the FBI did not report that he had failed to include these organizations.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">DAVIES: Seth Rosenfeld's book "Subversives" is now out in paperback. This is FRESH AIR.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR, and we're listening to Terry's interview recorded last year with journalist Seth Rosenfeld. His book "Subversives: How the - The FBI's War on Student Radicals and Reagan's Rise to Power" is now out in paperback.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">GROSS: Did you learn anything about how the relationship between the FBI and Ronald Reagan developed after Ronald Reagan became president?</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: Ronald Reagan's connection to the FBI begins in Hollywood in the late '40s. This was a time in his life when he was having trouble with his film career, his marriage was falling apart and his faith in the Democratic politics of his father were beginning to falter.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">It was about - right about this time - that he was first approached by the FBI and told that communists were trying to take over Hollywood. This greatly affected Reagan. As he wrote in his memoir, the FBI agents opened his eyes to a good many things. He made fighting communism his main cause. He became an FBI informer. He supported the FBI publicly in speeches he gave and in return the FBI did certain personal and political favors for him.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">One of the arguments in my book is that Reagan's secret relationship with the FBI had a profound impact on his political development. And later as president he goes on to stare down the Soviet Union.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">GROSS: So the information that's in your book "Subversives" and that you've been sharing with us today, this is a result of five Freedom of Information Act lawsuits and 30 years of research on your part. Why did it take five lawsuits to get the files released?</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: That's a good question.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">(LAUGHTER)</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">ROSENFELD: I first got interested in the subject when I was a student at the University of California at Berkeley in the late '70s. I was a writer for the Daily Californian student newspaper. The Daily Cal had requested some FBI files on Berkeley under the Freedom of Information Act. So I looked at those files and I wrote a story about the FBI spying on the Free Speech Movement and on the Vietnam Day Committee.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">They were published back in 1982. But I realized there was far more to the FBI's activities on campus. So I submitted a much larger Freedom of Information Act request. I figured I would get the files in maybe a year or so and write the story and go on to the next project. I had no idea that I was embarking on what would become a 31-year legal odyssey.</font></p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.17647em; padding: 0px 15px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.70588; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 680px; position: static; float: none; width: auto; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">..</font></p></div><div class="GGD0W3FBET"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">==</font></div><div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucus8I7FPQY">
</a></font></div><div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucus8I7FPQY">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucus8I7FPQY</a>
</font><div><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">AMY</span> <span class="caps">GOODMAN</span>:</strong> I want to play a clip of a speech of Ronald Reagan when he was running for governor in ’66 and spoke out about the Free Speech Movement.</font></p><blockquote class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 1em 0px; padding: 0px 3em; direction: ltr; overflow: auto; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; direction: ltr;"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">RONALD</span> <span class="caps">REAGAN</span>:</strong> There is a leadership gap in Sacramento, a morality and a decency gap. And there’s no more tragic evidence of this than what has been perpetrated on the campus of Berkeley across the Bay. There—there, a small minority of beatniks, radicals and filthy speech advocates have brought shame on a great university, so much so that applications—applications for enrollment have dropped 21 percent, and there’s evidence they will continue to drop even more.</font></p></blockquote><blockquote class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 1em 0px; padding: 0px 3em; direction: ltr; overflow: auto; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; direction: ltr;"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Now, we’ve all read the press reportings of the report that was handed in by the Senate subcommittee and its charges that the campus has become a rallying point for communists and a center for sexual misconduct. I’ve never seen that report. I only know what I’ve read in the paper about it. But I’ve had in my position information that verifies, at least in part, what the press has said about that report. As a matter of fact, I have here a copy of a report of the district attorney of Alameda County. It concerns a dance that was sponsored by the Vietnam Day Committee, sanctioned by the university as a student activity, and that was held in the men’s gymnasium at the University of California. The incidents are so bad, so contrary to our standards of human behavior, that I couldn’t possibly recite them to you here from this platform in detail.</font></p></blockquote><blockquote class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 1em 0px; padding: 0px 3em; direction: ltr; overflow: auto; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; direction: ltr;"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">This is not only a sign of a leadership gap—or not the only sign. It began a year ago, when the so-called free speech advocates, who in truth have no appreciation for freedom, were allowed to assault and humiliate the symbol of law and order of policemen on the campus. And that was the moment when the ringleaders should have been taken by the scruff of the neck and thrown out of the university once and for all.</font></p></blockquote><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">AMY</span> <span class="caps">GOODMAN</span>:</strong> That was Ronald Reagan speaking as he ran for California governor. In that same speech, he called for hearings to investigate allegations against professors accused of being communists and for said faculty—should be required to sign a code of conduct. Talk about these files that Ronald Reagan, who then became governor, is talking about.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">SETH</span> <span class="caps">ROSENFELD</span>:</strong> Yes, well, that speech was given in May 1966 at the Cow Palace during the Republican primary. And you can hear Reagan focusing on the University of California, the Berkeley campus, in particular. And by this time in his campaign, he has made the campus protest, the Free Speech Movement, antiwar protest and civil rights protest, a major issue. And he’s not only complaining about those protests, he’s using them as a way to attack the incumbent Democrat, Pat Brown. He’s saying that these pose—these show that there’s a leadership gap and a morality gap at the center of the state’s Democratic Party.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Reagan, by this time, had formed a very close and cordial relationship with the <span class="caps">FBI</span>. That’s a phrase that <span class="caps">FBI</span> officials used to describe their relationship with Reagan. This relationship was based on his years in Hollywood, where he was more active as an informer. He had named a number of people to the <span class="caps">FBI</span>, sometimes on very scant evidence. In one instance, in the documents, he meets a young actress at a cocktail party, and she comes up to him and says, "You know, I have serious concerns about the blacklist. I think it’s unfair to people." And Reagan disputes this with her and later reports her to the <span class="caps">FBI</span>. And the <span class="caps">FBI</span>, as a result of that, opens a file on her. So, by the time he’s running for governor, he has a very close relationship with the <span class="caps">FBI</span>.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">And soon after he’s elected in November 1966, he phones the <span class="caps">FBI</span>, as one of his first acts in office, and he requests a secret briefing about the protests at UC Berkeley, not only about students and professors engaged in dissent, but also about members of the Board of Regents, specifically liberal members of the Board of Regents, and about the university president, Clark Kerr.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">JUAN</span> GONZÁLEZ:</strong> Now, Seth, you also—</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">SETH</span> <span class="caps">ROSENFELD</span>:</strong> Not long after this, Reagan attends his first meeting of the Board of Regents, and at this meeting, Clark Kerr is fired.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">JUAN</span> GONZÁLEZ:</strong> Yeah, you’ve mentioned that not only was Reagan—did Reagan particularly target Clark Kerr, but J. Edgar Hoover also felt that Clark Kerr was a menace as the president of the University of California. Could you talk about Kerr himself, his history and his role, in terms of the <span class="caps">FBI</span>targeting him, and Reagan? Because a lot of people also forget that Reagan was the first person to institute tuition at the University of California, which, before him, had been free to all people who were able to get into the California university system.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">SETH</span> <span class="caps">ROSENFELD</span>:</strong> Yes. Clark Kerr is one of the towering figures in American higher education. He was born in 1911, coincidentally the same year that Ronald Reagan was born. Kerr came from a rural part of Pennsylvania. His father was a farmer and a teacher. And Kerr worked on the farm as a boy and attended a one-room schoolhouse. Kerr has written in his memoirs that he had a teacher at this one-room schoolhouse named Miss Elba, who took an interest in him and had a profound impact on him. She helped him become a good student, and as a result of that, he went on to attend Swarthmore College. So, Kerr has always felt, from his very early days, very strongly about the power of education to transform people’s lives.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">At Swarthmore, Kerr becomes a Quaker. He believes in nonviolence, and he works for social justice through the American Friends Service Committee and then moves to California, does graduate work at the University of California, Berkeley, and later becomes the first chancellor at Berkeley in the 1950s. In 1958, he’s elected—he’s appointed president of the University of California system. Kerr helps expand the University of California into one of the greatest public universities in history and opens the door to higher education for thousands of people. One of the things that Kerr accomplishes is called the Master Plan for Higher Education. This was a system of junior colleges, four-year colleges and public universities, graduate schools, like UC Berkeley, that was set up around California and was then emulated around the country and internationally. And this really transformed the educational system and opened it up to many, many people.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">At the same time Kerr was doing this, he opened—also opened the University of California campus to free speech in many ways. He lifted the ban against communist and socialist speakers. And his explanation at the time was, the university is not engaged in making ideas safe for students, it’s engaged in making students safe for ideas. He believed that if students were well educated, they could hear ideas from any point of view and then make the right decisions. However, J. Edgar Hoover didn’t appreciate that point of view. He viewed Kerr as potentially subversive and certainly as somebody who was not in sympathy with Hoover’s own political views. He blamed Kerr for opening the campus to activism and was very angry at Kerr later, during the Free Speech Movement, for not cracking down more severely on student protesters.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">So, in my Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, I requested any and all records concerning Clark Kerr. And the <span class="caps">FBI</span> released over a thousand pages on him. And what these documents show is that the <span class="caps">FBI</span>did normal background investigations of Kerr, because he was in a high position at the university and was overseeing the nuclear radiation labs, but that the <span class="caps">FBI</span> also used these background investigations as a pretext to try and sabotage his career. And one way the <span class="caps">FBI</span> did this, under J. Edgar Hoover, was by gathering allegations against Kerr and then sending them to the White House to Lyndon—President Lyndon Johnson, even though the <span class="caps">FBI</span> had investigated the allegations and knew that they were untrue.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">And the <span class="caps">FBI</span> also leaked information to conservative members of the Board of Regents in an effort to convince the Regents to fire Kerr. But Kerr had a very staunch ally in Governor Pat Brown. And as long as Pat Brown was the governor of California, Kerr would remain as president of the University of California. So when Ronald Reagan was elected in November of '66, <span class="caps">FBI</span> officials saw this as a breath of fresh air. They finally had an ally in the governor's office. And they complied with Governor Reagan’s request to meet with him soon after he was elected. They gave him an extensive briefing about Berkeley, about Clark Kerr, about his opponents on the Board of Regents. And then, very shortly thereafter, Kerr was fired at the University of California.</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; line-height: 21px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><strong><span class="caps">AMY</span> <span class="caps">GOODMAN</span>:</strong> I want to—</font></p><p class="collapsed-hide" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; direction: ltr; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><span style="line-height: 21px;"><b style=""><a href="http://www.democracynow.org/2012/8/24/book_reveals_extensive_effort_by_reagan" style="">http://www.democracynow.org/2012/8/24/book_reveals_extensive_effort_by_reagan</a></b></span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>